CLUTCH CYCLING SWITCH. In short, NO! James10952001. R12 can move more heat than r134 so when it isn't very hot and the system isn't maxed out you wont be able to tell the difference but when its 110 out and the inside is 140 R12 will cool the cabin temp faster. VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. = R134a Charge Level. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. Sense ells no existirem. They should be able to keep you comfortable on a long trip, but don't expect vent frost in 3 minutes or lesss.2) Too much oil can reduce cooling capacity, and the effect is not linear. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. When I compare parts, 93 uses one part number and 94 has a different part number. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. Compressor. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Flushed, vacuumed etc. Very nice! Participate in over 40 different forums and search/browse from nearly 3 million posts. Still, I have some simple green, so may as well give it a go. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). How dumb!I will jumper the aux fan and redo the test. maintain the A/C of older cars. Please enter a password for your user account. Very interesting! R134a requires a different oil. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. 5) A/C System Failure. Kommentare . The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. George Bray on Wed August 31, 2005 5:03 PM I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. The mechanical fan & clutch should be checked as well. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. R134a and R12 are among the most popular types of refrigerants. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. Is there a graph? The car never overheats, if that has any import. 5. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. It does not "pool" to any degree in a large amount anywhere. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). This is the part that controls the system pressures. Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. The system will be checked for gross leaks while under vacuum. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. 2) Frost on the Vents. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1991Make: Jaguar Model: XJ6Engine Size: 4.0. don't know enough about the subject to explain the choices.However, a few days ago I called the dealer to see about an OEM TEV and they said something that made me feel a little bit better; the same part number superceded every application back to the '60s, and that they couldn't do that without engineering signing off on it.Still, I would feel a lot better if I could see something written officially that compared the flow characteristics and performance of r12 and 134a TEVs are concluded that they were interchangeable in automotive applications.If someone knows of such a document I would sleep much better!Walt Edited: Mon September 12, 2005 at 8:13 PM by wamcneil. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. The only difference I can imagine would be the recharge connection. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. For R12, its mineral oil. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Back in that era, my business associates drove those things, brand new, and maybe I should take my Cadillac instead, no they wouldn't be caught dead in a Caddy, people of our esteem should be driving an MB. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. I've straightened the fans I can and sprayed simple green on it, let it soak then hosed it down well. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. (The .133 is the 300D Turbo).So, what does your compressor look like?B. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. Quick View. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. Can I use the one for the R-12? Formula: (R12 Charge Specification x 0.9) - 0.25 lbs. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. I have the original (R12) style expansion valve in the Maverick AC system. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. Talk about what services you provide. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. The original CFC expansion valve used for R12 needs to be replaced with an HFC one for 134a to feed the evaporator correctly. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 Actually R134a is more efficient. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). I'm also thinking maybe I should go to R134 - it might work better with the right amount of oil and the correct expansion valve. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. Stability: RR12 doesnt disintegrate even under extreme operating conditions. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. Yes, I don't trust the heater valve either. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. Are you sure you have an R4? Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. R1234yf is more environmentally friendly and has a global warming potential of 4. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? (You must log in or sign up to reply here. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. Look deep into the fins. This is because R134a. How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? But R22 is almost equally damaging. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). Electric fans do wear out. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. RULES for AOP - Owner Assistance and Contractors, Energy Efficiency and Building Performance Discussion NEW, Carnak Zone/Locked Areas - For Professional Member Only, How To Become a Pro and Rules For Pro Members, Pro Forum: Refrigerants and EPA regulations **NEW, Pro Forum: Residential Refrigeration and Appliances **NEW, Pro Forum: Equipment Recalls and Bulletins **NEW, Pro's Forum: Building Science Discussions, Educational Forums - Open for all in the industry, Welcome to HVAC-Talk's Educational Forums, How to Submit Links, Articles and Quiz Questions, Frequently Asked Questions About Submissions, Physics, Thermodynamics, Fluid Flow and Combustion, Educational, Training & Reference Information, Manufacturer's Technical Information Links, Electrical Theory, Circuits and Electronics, HVACR Equipment, Components & Accessories, Accessories Humidifiers, Air Cleaners, HRUs, Fans, Filters, etc. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Also called the orifice tube. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. $21 . Use strips of foam to couple the two heat exchangers if necessary.B. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. ESP when a compressor has frozen. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. Yes, the 50F diff (160-110F) on the condenser was at idle, and ambient was about 90F. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. It won't be optimal, though. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. Can I use the one for the R-12? Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Nice to use new gadgets! #13. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. By using a qualified a/c shop with the proper equipment you odds are in your favor of having the job done correctly the first time. SO here's my question. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. What is a good differential? Only show this user. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. It won't be optimal, though. He used thermostatic expansion valve and Capillary tube for analysis with R12. If you have a York, and it is equipped with service valves, you can check & adjust the oil level without discharging the system. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . I think the way to go here is1. R134a and water have the same abilities to change the state but R134a can do this more rapidly and at a much lower temperature than water. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Thomas Jefferson, Thanks,OK, I'm starting to feel a little better about it. If you have the work done, be sure you find a true "A/C" shop that can make up lines. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment.
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